Elliot’s Debates: Volume 1

Journal of the Federal Convention

Thursday, July 5, 1787.

The Hon. Mr. Gerry reported, from the committee to whom were referred the eighth resolution, and such part of the seventh resolution as had not already been decided on by the house, that the committee had directed him to submit the following report to the consideration of the house; and the same, being delivered in at the secretary’s table, was read once throughout, and then by paragraphs, and is as follows, namely:—

The committee to whom were referred the 8th resolution reported from the committee of the whole house, and so much of the 7th as hath not been decided on, submit the following report:—

That the subsequent propositions be recommended to the Convention, on condition that both shall be generally adopted.

“1. That, in the first branch of the legislature, each of the states now in the Union be allowed one member for every forty thousand inhabitants of the description reported in the 7th resolution of the committee of the whole house; that each state not containing that number shall be allowed one member; that all bills for raising or appropriating money, and for fixing the salaries of the officers of the government of the United States, shall originate in the first branch of the legislature, and shall not be altered or amended by the second branch; and that no money shall be drawn from the public treasury, but in pursuance of appropriations to be originated by the first branch.

“2. That in the second branch of the legislature, each state shall have an equal vote.”

It was moved and seconded to postpone the consideration of the 1st proposition contained in the report, in order to take up the 2d.

On the question to postpone, it passed in the negative.

Yeas: New York, South Carolina, 2. Nays: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia, 8.

It was then moved by Mr. Rutledge, and seconded, to postpone the 1st clause of the report, in order to take up the following, namely:—

“That the suffrages of the several states be regulated and proportioned according to the sums to be paid towards the general revenue by the inhabitants of each state, respectively; that an apportionment of suffrages, according to the ratio aforesaid, shall be made and regulated at the end of…years from the first meeting of the legislature of the United States, and so from time to time, at the end of every…years thereafter, but that for the present, and until the period first above mentioned,…shall have one suffrage,” &c.*

And on the question to postpone, it passed in the negative.

* The two following statements are among the papers of Mr. Brearly, furnished by General Bloomfield. They have, apparently, reference to this resolution.

States. Number
Whites.
Number
Blacks.
New Hampshire,… 82,000 102,000
Massachusetts Bay,… 352,000
Rhode Island,… 58,000
Connecticut,… 202,000
New York,… 238,000
New Jersey,… 138,000 145,000
Pennsylvania,… 341,000
Delaware,… 37,000
Maryland,… 174,000 80,000
Virginia,… 300,000 300,000
North Carolina,… 181,000
South Carolina,… 93,000
Georgia,… 27,000

The following quotas of taxation are extracted from the printed journals of the old Congress, September 27, 1785:—

States. Quotas of Taxes. Delegates.
Virginia,… 512,974 16
Massachusetts Bay,… 448,854 14
Pennsylvania,… 410,178 12 3/4
Maryland,… 283,034 8 3/4
Connecticut,… 264,182 8
New York,… 256,486 8
North Carolina,… 218,0126 6 3/4
South Carolina,… 192,366 6
New Jersey,… 166,716 5
New Hampshire,… 105,416 3 1/4
Rhode Island,… 64,636 2 1/4
Delaware,… 44,886 1 1/4
Georgia,… 32,060 1
3,000,000 90

And on the question to postpone, it passed in the negative.

Yea: South Carolina, 1. Nays: Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, 8.

And then the house adjourned till to-morrow, at 11 o’clock, A. M.

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Contents

General Overview

In 1787 and 1788, following the Constitutional Convention, a great debate took place throughout America over the Constitution that had been proposed.

In-Doors Debate

View in-depth studies of the Massachusetts, Virginia, and New York state ratifying conventions.

The Federal Pillars

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The Stages of Ratification: An Interactive Timeline

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Interactive Ratification Map

View interactive maps showing the breakdown of Federalist-Antifederalist strength at the state level during the Ratification debate.

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